OPRAH: Can you be as famous as your father was famous, as famous as your
former husband Michael Jackson was famous as famous as you’ve grown up to be
and be normal?
LISA: No. (laughs) I
can only answer for myself. To tell you that I’m not normal. But um…
O: But you’ve managed to be relatively very private and
that’s why I’m thrilled that you’re talking to me today. You’ve made a
conscience decision to talk now. Why?
L: Everytime I’ve
ever had an interview in the past I tend to get very defensive because I was
usually promoting something and it would cross into my personal life and I tend
to never want to discuss the two. I never want them to cross. I know that it’s
hard to have them not but I wanted to sit and really have a conversation about
things that are you know, more in a personal level now, out of the way, before
I do have an album coming out. Which I will sometime next year because…
O: I get that. I get that because you didn’t want to be in the position of
promoting an album and having people ask you about Michael Jackson.
L:
Exactly.
Narration:
(the star crossed love
affair between Lisa Marie Presley and Michael Jackson started in 1993. What
began as friendship bloomed very quickly into something more and in 1994 Lisa
Marie shocked the world when she married Michael Jackson. And just a year and a
half later their marriage was over. They had not spoken for nearly a decade
when Michael was found dead on June 25th 2009 at a rented home in Los Angeles)
O: You’ve not spoken about Michael Jackson since his death other than the blog you did.
L: Right and I
really didn’t speak well, when I see previous interviews, I’m barky and I tend
to want to skirt out of it and I would find quick little exits defensively out
of it
O: It’s interesting because the very first interview we did together, when I
asked you if it was a real relationship you became very barky and defensive
because…
L: Because I
didn’t understand my relationship with him.
O: Well, having gotten to know you since then, I understand your defensiveness
coming from your point of view. But coming from my point of view, the viewers
point of view, the world, didn’t know what to make of that.
L: Right.
O: And really still doesn’t know what to make of that and therefore your blog
after his death where you said “I want to set the record straight, this
relationship was not a sham, this was a real marriage.”
L: Mhhmmm.
O: I think really struck a lot of people. And even when you said on my show,
yes, this was a real marriage, there was a sexual relationship, and all of
that, but the rest of the world I think thought it was a big staged publicity
something, I don’t know. Do you understand that now?
L: Right. I
completely understand, I do. I understand that because to some degree he was a
master at manipulating a little bit with the media. So I understand that there
was no one who really knew who I was so they just assumed I was going along
with something that he would be doing
(Oprah: Absolutely)
...and a lot of
that is what I wanted to clear up in an interview, in this interview was to
explain… he was brought up that way. You know, before even answering questions
about him or talking about him, it would need to be understood fully his life,
which is completely different than anyone else’s life that ever was except for
you know, my father. He was conditioned to sort of get himself where he needed
to go for his career and with his talent. He became very good at making and
creating and -
O: Manipulating.
L: Puppeteering –
manipulating to some degree. It’s true but, see and I always confused that
manipulation, thinking that that manipulation meant he didn’t love me. But I
understand it better now. The manipulation was because it was a survival tactic
for him.
O: So was it after his death that you have gained such clarity about the
relationship?
L: Yes. And I
don’t know why. I really don’t understand that. But yes, this whole last year
and a half has been spent trying to gain the clarity because at some point I
pushed it away and I just had to move on with my life and then that happened
and it was like a tidal wave brought it all back.
O: Where were you when you first heard, where were you?
L: I was in
England and I don’t know why but it was the strangest day of my life. I was
crying all day.
O: For what reason?
L: I don’t know
and I don’t normally do that. I was trying to work and I came home and I was
literally cutting my food eating my dinner crying and I wanted to go upstairs
and go upstairs and watch something mindless on TV and stop crying. I looked at
my husband and said “I don’t know what’s
wrong with me, I just can’t stop” and then an hour later the call came and I
heard.
O: You heard, who told you?
L: It was a
friend of mine who just… Actually, I got streaming texts, “Are you okay? Are
you okay? What’s happening” Actually John Travolta was one of the first texts I
got, “Are you alright?” And I said, “What’s happening? Is this actually
happening?” It was still unclear, you know.
O: And your reaction, your first reaction?
L: Real honest to
goodness shock. Not even tears, just floored, I was honestly floored.
(June 25th 2009: News
reporter: Apparently Michael Jackson has suffered cardiac arrest this
afternoon. He was rushed to UCLA medical centre” People around the world were
glued to their televisions as events unfolded in Los Angeles, by late afternoon
it was clear. News reporter: “Michael Jackson, the legendary pop star, known by
millions of fans around the world has died.”
Oprah: A little over one year later I have come to England to Lisa Marie
Presley about their relationship and his death. )
O: The next day after Michael’s death you posted very emotional thoughts on
your blog. What made you do that?
L: I think I was
just rocking a baby to sleep and I was just in floods of tears. I thought, I
don’t know, I had a moment of clarity and I realized that all this bitterness I
thought I had and you know, indifference, it was no longer. It all just came… I
don’t even, it’s been so crazy. I don’t even know how to explain how all of it
happened which is why I waited over a year to talk about it. Because there were
so many phases of this
-O: Let me help you through that here, let me read an excerpt of what you wrote
the day after he Michael died. You said, “The person I failed to help is being
transferred to the LA County Coroner’s Office for his autopsy. All my
indifference and detachment that I worked so hard to achieve over the years has
just gone into the bowels of Hell and right now I am gutted.” Gutted. I thought
that was an interesting choice of words, that means, gutted, empty, dug out,
L: Mhhm.
O: Did you feel that you had failed to help him?
L: Yes.
O: Okay, so in May of 1994 when you were married to him or during the time that
you were married to him, did you suspect a drug problem?
L: Honestly, I
didn’t really suspect and catch on until just before I filed for divorce. There
was just an occasion, an incident, where he had collapsed and he was in the
hospital.
O: This was for HBO?
L: Yeah, there
was an appearance he was supposed to make.
(In December 1995 Michael
Jackson collapsed onstage while rehearsing for an HBO concert special in New
York. His doctors said Michael was suffering from a viral infection. Lisa Marie
flew to his side in the hospital where he stayed for six days.)
L: Everybody flew
to the hospital. And, um, it was very confusing what was wrong, because every
day there was a different report. I couldn’t tell what was happening.
Dehydration, low blood pressure, exhaustion, a virus, so I couldn’t really get
a straight answer as to what was happening with him. I think we were all a
little bit in the dark. At that point I think I really got from various
indications I believed that was going on then.
O: You thought there was some drug use?
L: Yeah, yeah.
There were times when I would pick him up from a certain doctor’s office and he
would not be coherent. There was some behaviour now looking back at it. I knew
that that was, because of injections because they were painful and he would
need certain things because he needed to…
O: He would need things for what?
L: Injections or
whatever various dermatological…
O: Was this for his skin disease?
L: Skin, various
things he needed.
O: Was it the kind of marriage where a lot of things went unsaid or unspoken or
did you feel a sense of intimacy and connection, that you could ask him
anything?
L: I honestly can
tell you that it was in every sense a normal marriage and everything was
spoken. In the middle of the night, if he needed to wake up and tell me, bounce
something off me, and wake me up and wanna talk… if there was trouble…Was he
having trouble sleeping then? He was like a little gnome. I used to tell him he
was a gnome running around the room because it was hard for him to sleep. A lot
of times I couldn’t sleep either if he wasn’t sleeping. I’d just hear him
piddling. It was a bit endearing but then I didn’t mind it. But he did have a
hard time sleeping, yes.
O: Did you feel like you were in many ways a nurturer or caretaker for him?
L: Very much. And
I really loved that role and I loved taking care of him. It was the highest
point of my life, one of the very highest points of my life. When things were
going really well and he and I were united together and he and I had an
understanding about some of the people and the things that could go around him
and he was with me on those things and we were a unit and I could take care of
him. Inspite of what people speculated while I was with him that I wanted a
career or was trying to do something, it was absolute BS. I’ve never been
comfortable being front and centre, honestly don’t like being front and centre.
Loved being next to him, taking care of him. I was on such a high from doing
that. It was a very profound time of my life. So it wasn’t anything – it was
real, as far as that goes.
O: I heard you say to the producers that being with him was some of the highest
highs for you, as you’ve just described, and also some of the lowest lows.
L: Yes.
O: What was the lowest low?
L: The lowest
was… you know, again, when I talk about him I now in retrospect want to make
very clear that I understand him now more than I ever did. So when I speak
about him I can speak about him with understanding and it’s all good now. For
some reason, I don’t know what happens when someone passes away and this is
what’s come of it, but I’ve come to have all this love again and understanding
for him. I don’t know why it had to take all that to have this happen. That
upsets me a bit. But the lowest low…
O: ‘Cause were you angry with him before? Were you angry with him when you left
the marriage?
L: I was angry, I
was very angry. I was so angry, because I felt that we had such… we were so
united. Then at some point he pushed me out.
O: L Why did the marriage end?
L: There was a
very profound point in the marriage when he had to make a decision, was it the
drugs and the sort of vampires or me? And he pushed me away.
O: Vampires?
L: Meaning,
people that are sort of spiders, vampires…
O: Sycophants?
L: Sycophants,
yeah.
O: So you saw that all around him?
L: Oh God, yes.
And it was…
O: Many people talk about that and there are stories written about him. He
seemed to be drawn to people who would take advantage of him. What was that?
L: The one thing
that correlates with Michael and with my father on this subject is that they
had the luxury of creating whatever reality around them they wanted to create.
They could have the kinds of people who were gonna go with their program or not
go with their program and if they weren’t then they could be disposed of.
O: It’s the reality of being a God in your own world.
L: Right. And
this is something that I’ve experienced – that I’ve had way too much experience
with. With both sides, where I’ve seen what can go on and that is um…
O: My way or the highway.
L: Right! Michael wasn’t a bad person because
that’s how he functioned – he didn’t know any better. It wasn’t that – I took
it very personally though. I felt like I was disposable. It was the same with
my father, sometimes I sit and I think, there were times when I was angry at
the people around him, why didn’t you stop him, why didn’t you say something?
Well, because if you did you were out. It’s very simple.
O: So-
L: And he didn’t
mean anything either.
O: So he wasn’t the kind of person, nor your father was, who wanted people
around him who telling them the truth, he wanted to be told what they wanted to
hear.When it’s this unusual reality in an ivory tour and this God like life,
mixed with an addiction, that’s when you get into trouble. A lot of trouble.
(August 16th 1977, nine
year old Lisa Marie was home at Graceland when her father Elvis collapsed in
his bathroom and died. There was a lethal mix of fourteen drugs in his system.)
O: Are you struck between the parallel from your father’s life and Michael
Jackson’s life? Your father and your former husband?
L: Yes. It really
blows me away to be honest with you. I still try to figure out why, what is it
that I had to go through twice? Where these two incredible people and I speak
with the utmost respect and love for both.
O: Your father and Michael.
L: Yes, who had
the same fate. What is it about me? I went through it once and that was painful
and I went through it again. I don’t quite understand it, y’know.
O: When we were
hiking this summer, Lisa shared something with me that you all would find interesting.
(Shot of his LA home: This is the home in Los Angeles where Michael Jackson
died. Across the street, just a stone throw away was Elvis Presley’s California
home, where Lisa Marie spent a lot of time growing up.)
O: What about the irony of that? Just across the street!
L: It’s… my
mother, when I came home after being in England for so long, I wanted to drive
by and see where it was and I lived there up until after he died, she sold it.
So I had several birthday’s there. I said, she said, “It’s right across the
street” and I said, “Oh please, it’s not right across the street. You’re being…
whatever” shooed her off. And I drove and I really was completely… I don’t even
know how to describe that. How that felt because… I don’t even think he knew, I
think that was another thing where these things keep happening and the
universe… and I’m like, what is it that I’m trying to learn here? What is it
that I need to know?
O: I thought it was interesting when you wrote the blog the day after Michael
Jackson’s death that you titled the blog, “He knew.” What did he know?
L: When I was
watching the footage of the ambulance backing out of his driveway, I went back
to this conversation I had with him at Neverland in the library. We were
sitting by the fire and he was telling me that he was afraid that he was going
to end up like my father. He was always asking me about when he died and how it
happened and where…
O: Michael was always asking you about your father?
L: Yes. And he
said, I feel like I’m going to end up the same way.
O: Did you say why?
L: Yeah. I was
like, “What are you talking about? I don’t understand” and down to the play by
play by play incident, it was identical.
O: First of all, you were much younger then. But as you look back at your
marriage to him and who you were in that marriage, do you think there was a big
part of you that wanted to see the truth?
L: The truth in
what way?
O: The truth about the drugs.
L: I was so naive
then, I know that isn’t easy to believe now.
O: It isn’t easy to believe but we can all understand the state of mind you
were in. So first of all, you growing up as Elvis Presley’s daughter and being
in your own right who you are, you wouldn’t be excited about being married to
Michael Jackson. It’s not like some fan married to Michael Jackson, because you
were used to the fame life. So you fell in love with him because of…?
L: For him.
Because he was an incredible, an incredibly dynamic person. If you were in his
vicinity and he wanted to give – and he showed you who he was, and he was
willing to do that in any way, meant that… I have never felt so high in my
life. I have never felt so high in my life as that. I am not lying when I say
that. He had something so intoxicating about him and when he was on, when he
was ready to share with you or give it to you, and be himself and allow you to
come in. I don’t know if I’ve ever been that intoxicated by anything.
O: I can hear what you’re saying, because when I first interviewed him – first
met him before the interview in 1992 (1993), it’s like he shines his light upon
you. When he opens himself up and lets that light through you just want to be
in that.
L: Yes!
O: You just want to be in that, you want to be around that and you know, we
were all in Neverland eating the candy and having a great time and I left
thinking, “Gosh, I wish I could be his friend.”
L: Yeah. It was
like a drug. He was like a drug for me. I felt like I just always wanted to be
around him, always wanted to be part of – I felt so high. I’ve never felt like
that around another human being, except for one, which was my father.
O: So interesting because you just said you were nine years old when your
father died, never felt that feeling before, so in many ways being with Michael
brought back that feeling of that light falling on you
L: Yes
O: All of that energy coming your way.
L: Yes!
O: Did you feel loved by Michael in the beginning?
L: Very much so.
I don’t think I realized it at the time, how much – what that meant because I
know that was very unusual for him. I know he’d had a few dates in his life but
there was nothing profound for him in that area. He fell in love with me and I
fell in love with him. It was very real.
O: How did he ask you to marry him?
L: We were in the
library in front of the fire and he pulled this giant 10 carat diamond out of
his pocket and put it on my finger. I think he got on his knees too and
proposed.
O: And at the time he proposed did you think that would be forever?
L: I did. I don’t
know, I did. And when I was younger I can honestly say that you can think like
that and believe that.
O: You know from the outside it just seemed so, too extraordinarily famous
people together, everywhere you went it seemed like a circus.
L: It’s true. But
it didn’t happen that often. We were together a lot and there was no cameras. I
think a lot of that was because the promo for HIStory was coming so we had to
go there and do this, all very manipulated, which I understand comes across as
very manipulated period.
O: Did you ever feel manipulated in the relationship?
L: Sometimes. But
he knew that I didn’t love that and he was okay. He got it. He needed to do his
thing, I would be there uncomfortably, like the MTV thing, his hand was blue
afterwards after we got off that stage. He showed me and it was completely
blue, I had squeezed it so hard! (laughs) I did not want to do that. It’s not
in my nature to do that sort of thing. But I understood it as his way of, he
needed to do things like that.
(Lisa Marie and Michael
Jackson had been married for a year when he released the intimate music video
for You Are Not Alone)
O: So was there a lot of pressure for you to have a baby?
L: Yes, there was quite a bit. I mean he was…
O: From the time you got married?
L: Yes, there
was. And I did want to. I just kept, I wanted to make sure, I was looking into
the future and I was thinking I don’t ever want to get ionto a custody battle
with him, I don’t want to go head to head with him. So I need to make sure that
everything around is good. I know, I’ve had children, I knew that bringing
children into certain circumstances you have to make sure that everything is
safe and secured and okay and I wanted to
make sure that he and I were really really united because we were gonna be up
against so much.
O: I can’t remember the exact month you divorced, but you divorced and several
months later, I know by October, it was announced that Debbie Rowe was
pregnant. How did you feel about that?
L: Well, I knew
it was a bit of a retalitory act on his part. Because I didn’t have a baby and
I know that she was there the whole time telling him she would do it.
O: You knew that?
L: He would come
tell me, he would come tell me. “If you’re not gonna do it, Debbie said she’ll
do it.” And I was like, “What is that? Hi. Uh… not gonna entice me.” So we
would get into it, you know, arguments because that really wasn’t how to handle
it. But that was how he knew how to handle it, I don’t wanna say – he’d be
like, “Well if you’re not going to, this person will. Are you gonna do it or
not?”
O: That’s what you mean by disposable.
L: Yes! That’s
exactly what I mean.
O: Oh, I get it. Well, there’s not many men who will say, you either have a
baby for me or I got somebody standing in the wings who will.
L: Right and it
sounds… hindsight twenty twenty and I understand him so well now. But at that
time I didn’t.
O: Hurt?
L: Hurt. Hurt, I
was hurt. And I did things that hurt him. I did stupid things too.
O: Like what?
L: Like, I was
very torn because I broke up my family. I left my husband for Michael. I was
having
a hard time trying to process that.
(Lisa Marie was twenty
years old when she married her first husband musician Danny Keough. Together
they had two children, Riley and Ben. After more than five years together Lisa
Marie divorced Danny. Twenty days later she was married again to Michael
Jackson.)
L: While I was
with Michael I was still trying to process what I had done. I never could feel
good about it. I felt like, how could I have done that to somebody and I have
these two little ones. Danny was still very much part of my life. Michael
didn’t quite know what to do with that sometimes. That made him uncomfortable
and I understood that. Michael would wonder, “Why are you in Hawaii with
Danny?” I’d take a vacation and Danny would go. Michael would get upset and
“Where are you?” and he would disappear for a couple of weeks and I couldn’t
find him. Things would make him uncomfortable and when I would do things that
would make Michael uncomfortable, if he got uncomfortable or felt vulnerable,
he would ice you out as a mechanism. He would push you away and ice you. It was
like a shark sometimes in that way, he could just like that, if you’d done him
wrong or whatever, you were out. We had some moments like that. But I have to
say in retrospect. that he honestly tried so hard and went through so much with
me, and I know now when I look back at it, he’s never done that with any other
female or anyone as much as we went through. We hit rough waters, we would
fight, we would argue, three day arguments sometimes, taking a break to eat and
sleep. I have to say that I really admire that he really gave it a good shot,
you know, I didn’t appreicate it then and I wish I did.
O: Did he have to die for you to recognize that he loved you?
L: I think so,
sadly.
O: Is that the first time that you recognized or believed that he truly loved
you, after he died?
L: I think, yes.
Sweeping answer would be yes. When we were together we were really in love and
then we had the rough patches and then I had to make the decision to walk when
I saw the drugs and the doctors walk in and they scared me and put me right
back to what I went through with my father. Then that ended. We again, were
going to get back together, we spent four more years after we’d divorced
getting back together and breaking up and talking about getting back together
and breaking up. At some point, I had to push it away because it was not, I
wasn’t moving forward with myself.
O: So you still loved him even when you left him?
L: Very much. I
left him to sort of stomp my foot in the ground and go… I was trying to take a
stand and say, come with me, don’t do this. That was a stupid move, because he
didn’t. And he’s you know, he’s a stubborn… I’m stubborn, he’s stubborn. The
two of us it was like you know…
O: Don’t make a dare you’re not willing to follow through on.
L: And actually
afterwards, he and I were still… I was still flying all over the world still
with him to follow.
O: When was the last time you spoke to him?
L: Coherently
good conversation? Sometime in 2005. It was a very long conversation. I was so
removed from him and he could feel it and he could hear it. And I think that’s
one of the things that killed me in the end too was that I was very distanced
and he was checking to get a read, he was trying to throw a line out to see if
I would bite emotionally and I wouldn’t. I was pretty shut off at that point. I
don’t even know how I managed to be like that but I was. He was asking me, he
wanted to tell me that I was right about a lot of the people around him, that
it had panned out to be exactly what he
and I had talked about years ago. He asked if I still loved him and we went
into a whole thing about that and I told him I was indifferent and he didn’t
like that word and he cried. He was trying to find out where I was at and how I
could become so detached. Then the final part of the conversation was him
telling me that he felt that someone was going to try to kill him to get a hold
of his catalogue and his estate.
O: So he actually gave you names?
L: He did. And
I’d rather not say them. But he expressed to me that his concern over his life.
O: You know, I’ve asked you this and I have to ask it again, even though it’s
an uncomfortable subject, but whether or not you had ever seen any inapropriate
behaviour between Michael and young children?
L: Are you asking
me again?
O: I’m asking you again.
L: The answer is
absolutely not, in any way. I did not see anything like that.
O: By 2005 was when he was on trial with the second charge. Your feelings at
that time were what?
L: He was calling
me about it and I said “Please keep your head together, please. If this goes to
trial, please hold it together.” He said, “What are you talking about, what do
you mean?” And he said, “You mean drugs?” And I said, “Yes.” Because all I saw
was random things coming out, whether it was Martin Bashir and all these
interviews, and in those interviews I saw him intoxicated. I didn’t see the
Michael that I knew in that Martin Bashir interview. He was high as a kite,
from what I saw and from what I knew.
O: Really?
L: He was either
too speedy or he was sedated. It wasn’t the Michael that I knew.
O: The shocking things, he said some pretty shocking things in that Martin
Bashir interview, particularly about how he felt about how it was okay to sleep
with young children.
L: I think he
said that stuff sometimes to be defiant, because he got so angry at having been
accused. He was such a stubborn little rebel at times and he was like a child
and he would just say what he felt everyone didn’t want him to say. I don’t
feel like he had a straight head during those things and I think that they were
edited in a very very manipulative nasty way.
O: So you never saw anything and to this day you don’t believe any of those
charges were true?
L: No. I honestly
cannot say, the only people who are going to be able to say the truth are him
and whoever was in that room at the time it allegedly took place. I was never
in the room, it wouldn’t be fair for me to… I can tell you I never saw anything
like that.
O: Have you now made peace with his death? I know that you watched the funeral
that we all saw on television and you went to a private ceremony, what was that
like standing in the room with his casket?
L: That was
really, another six months of whatever I recovered from I think. I think I was
the last one standing with him. That was…
O: What do you mean the last one standing with him?
L: Well, most
people had left and I was the last one standing over him. I didn’t want to leave him.
O: As you stood over his casket I know that there’s probably nothing more
personal or private than those moments when you stood over that casket, were
you able to make peace?
L: No. I wasn’t
able to make peace then. I more wanted to apologize. I felt like I wanted to
apologize.
O: For?
L: Not being
around.
O: Do you think you could have saved him?
L: God, that’s
such a hard question. Naively I want to say… I know that it’s naive to think
that I could have. But I wanted to. Could I have? Had I made a call, had I stopped
being so shut off from him, had I said, “How are you?” Had I tried to make a
phonecall, you know, I really regret that I didn’t.
O: Do you think family and friends let him down? Do you think that someone
could have done something?
L: I think that they
tried. Sadly, like I said, if he didn’t want you around, if you were going to
make him confront something he didn’t want to confront he could make you go
away, including his own family. They got in the opposite side of that. I think
that was a train heading into a certain direction that nobody could stop. I
think I’ve really had to get my head around that in order to stop the pain.
O: For yourself?
L: Mhhm.
O: And how is this for your current husband who seem like a really loving generous supportive man? How is it for
him with all this Michael stuff coming up?
L: He is so happy
I’ll be done with this interview, he’s like “I just want you to excorcize this
and get it out,” because I’ve been… he’s had to hear it for so long.
O: Never good for the current husband to have to hear about the ex husband a
lot.
L: No, it’s not.
It’s not, no. And I understand that. But he also understands that, he’s the
most understanding person I’ve ever met in my life. I’ve never… thank God
because he’s really allowed me to go through whatever it is I needed to go
through with this. But I know it’s highly highly unusual and I know it’s a lot
to ask for of him. I don’t feel good about it but it’s something that came down
on me that I’ve had to deal with and I’ve had to…
O: Because all these Michael feelings were repressed and buried when you
started dating Michael Lockwood
L: Exactly.
O: You’ve said earlier that the universe, God, you don’t understand is trying
to teach you something obviously because of the parallels between your father
Elvis Presley’s life and Michael Jackson’s life, now with over a year after
Michael’s death and thirty three years since your father’s passed, what do you
think the lesson is?
L: I feel really
alone in that I’ve gone through this with these incredible like this. I feel
really honoured at the same time.
O: With Michael’s death, for you is it like a lot of people still, his
birthday, the anniversary of his death, are those stil hard days?
L: They are but
it’s been happening all my life. August 16th I’ve
dreaded my whole life which is you know…
O: The death of your father.
L: Yes and now
it’s June 25th.
O: We said, you said when we talked about this interview you said you were
going to do it one time, so this is it you’re not going to talk about it
anymore?
L: No, I’m not,
I’m not going to talk about it. If anyone wants to know about it in the future,
they can refer to the Oprah winfrey show.
O: Thank you. Thank you for letting us have the time and for openning up about
it. Not an easy thing to do.
L:
Thanks.
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